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AN
EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH HARRIET LERNER
The content of your books seems to flow easily and speak personally
to each reader. I'd like to begin by asking you when you first started
to write.
During most of my growing-up years in Brooklyn I kept one of those
lock-and-key diaries. This helped me to see writing as an ordinary
daily activity, to not be afraid of seeing my words on paper, and
to understand the act of writing as comforting. And my diaries were
my place to tell the truth, although I didn't always do that.
Was there a glimpse of future talent in those diaries?
Absolutely none.
No evidence of literary talent, insight, imagination, or even courage.
Today, when I'm invited to talk to students in the public schools,
I bring a diary along and pass it around. If I'm going into a sixth-grade
class, I bring my sixth-grade diary.
The students
are enthralled. They thumb through the pages and say to one another,
"Wow, if she can write a book, I can do it too!" They
realize that writers don't have fairy dust sprinkled on them. We're
just plain folks.
Isn't
that very brave - passing your diaries around?
When you reach
fifty, your life is no longer embarrassing, because you realize
that everyone's life is embarrassing.
So
many women want to write and don't dare or think they can't. Do
you really believe that anyone can write?
I don't think
there is a writing gene, or a publishing gene, although some people
have a larger share of natural talent and luck. But I believe that
writing, like conversation, is a basic form of human communication
rather than the property of a gifted few.
We should not
allow someone to discourage us from writing any more than we should
allow someone to discourage us from talking. If another person tells
you that you can't write - well, disbelieve them.
Writing
is so difficult that I sometimes wonder what motivates writers to
write?
Many, many things
move us to write. We can write as a spiritual practice, like climbing
a sacred mountain, as Deena Metzger puts it. Or writing can be the
tactic of a "secret bully," as novelist Joan Didion reminds
us - "a way to say listen to me, see it my way, change your
mind." Many of us write with modest goals, like to change the
world.
But if what's
driving us to write are the "wrong things," our writing
won't be good or it won't come at all. I've learned after long years
of experience that every time I have writer's block my unconscious
is trying to tell me I'm off track.
I
know that you've been critical of so many experts jumping on the
advice-giving bandwagon. So how did you get into writing self-help
books?
With enormous
reservations, actually. I think women can't be cautious enough in
facing the advice-giving industry, which is a multibillion-dollar
business sensitively attuned to our insecurities, our purses, and
our endless and impossible pursuit of perfection.
But the truth
is, I've come to love and value writing self-help books. And I think
I've managed to avoid recipes for success, quick-fix solutions,
and blueprints for relational bliss.
So
you didn't start out seeing yourself as a "popular writer"?
Definitely
not. First I published in scholarly journals and scientific publications.
It was a sudden and unexpected turn in my career when I wrote The
Dance of Anger in "just plain English" and for
"just plain folks."
It was an incredibly
difficult transition, but I was dedicated to the task. Anyone who
thinks that it's simpler to write simply has never done it, or has
never done it well. Of course, I had many worries at the time.
Like?
Like I was worried
that my colleagues would write me off. And I wondered whether a
book could really change people's lives.
And
what did you conclude?
Some self-help
books do change people's lives. I know, because many, many people
have told me so and I believe them. I've been incredibly moved by
the response to my work.
And
surprised?
Yes, very much
so. As a psychotherapist I know that substantive change often occurs
slowly, sometimes at glacial speed. So it has amazed me to see how
people could take an idea from my Dance books and just run with
it.
I'm
wondering if you think your Dance trilogy should be read in any
particular order?
I'm frequently
asked that question, and people can be very insistent in wanting
an answer. Sometimes I tell people to eyeball all three and just
see which one they're most drawn to. Sometimes I tell people the
opposite, to start with the book they are absolutely certain couldn't
have any relevance to their own lives. ("Who, me? Angry!?")
Really, my books can be read in any order and they will build on
one another.
When
you were working on The Dance of Anger, did you know that
The Dance of Intimacy and The Dance of Deception
would follow?
No
way. The Dance of Anger
was a five-year project with endless revisions - and this was in
the days before I had a computer. I could wallpaper the largest
room in my house with rejection slips from my first book. When it
finally was published, I was convinced no one would read it besides
my mother and my seven best friends. And I said, "I will never
do this again. Never. It's too hard."
And
do you have any thoughts about what makes the difference between
success and failure?
Perseverance,
talent, and yes, luck.
I
know that a lot of people wonder why you write for women, when you're
an expert in families and relationships. Why do you?
There is a long
and short answer to that question. The short answer is that I write
for women because I want to, it's where my heart is. Men read my
books as well, usually because their therapists tell them to. And
of course, they find themselves in them. On most days I believe
humans are more alike than different.
I
know that you identify yourself as a feminist. How has the feminist
movement influenced your writing?
How hasn't it?
My debt to feminism is simply incalculable. Feminism allowed me
to see past a "reality" that I had once taken as a given.
It helped me to pay attention to countless voices, my own included,
that I had been taught "don't count." Feminism allows
me to maintain hope.
What
do you most want to accomplish in your books?
I want to help
people navigate their relationships in clear and solid ways. Learning
a bunch of "techniques" won't cut it. I want my readers
to understand how relationships operate and why they go badly. And
this includes seeing the part that we ourselves play in the problems
that bring us pain. And I want readers to see the broader picture
of injustice and inequality that affects us all. There is never
a resting place in the struggle for a fair world.
Is
there some particular virtue, quality, or trait that you think is
especially important for women to develop in our lives?
Courage. I once
heard Maya Angelou say that courage was the most important of all
virtues. Because without courage, we can't practice any of the virtues
- patience, honesty, forgiveness - with consistency. I agree with
her.
Speaking
honestly, do you see yourself as a courageous woman?
Not
in terms of facing physical challenges, like say, climbing a mountain
or rushing into a burning building to attempt a rescue. I'm not
heroic. But I'm brave in terms of speaking out and saying what I
think, even if my heart is pounding and I'm terrified. Without this
kind of courage, I might as well not write.
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